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Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 02:16 
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In our memories
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Tilmeldt: 29 dec 2001 02:01
Indlæg: 1989
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Dextrose skrev:
Astral skrev:
Men jeg går nok ud fra at du ikke kender de enkelte grundstoffers relation til dyrekredsen....


Nej, det indgik ikke lige i pensum... måske lærer jeg om det på A-niveau? :P

Eftersom du åbenbart ved noget om de forskellige grundstoffer, så vær sød at skrive HCl, eftersom saltsyre er Hydrogen og Chlorid (H + Cl)

"HCL" ville være Hydrogen + Carbon + ???

Der er ikke noget grundstof der er betegnet med L.

Og nej, jeg har ingen erfaring med Ayahuasca, jeg har kun røget DMT.
Dog har jeg planer om en Ayahuasca-gruppesession når det bliver varmere i vejret.

Jeg er ikke sur, jeg forholder mig bare kritisk... as usual!

Treasure > :)


*LOL*

Skal nok være sød nu Dex!

Fy skamme sig...

HCL... øhh... jeg mener HCI... *G* nu må du ik give mig en eftersidning vel Dex :D

Nu skal du ikke få ondt i maven men kig lige her:

http://www.aim4health.com/stomachpains.htm

Der bliver der også sagt HCL

Så der kan vel være lidt variation...

Det vigtigste er at vi taler om det samme

Citat:
HCL and what it does

If the stomach were not protected by mucus, hydrochloric acid (HCL) would burn the stomach lining. This powerful acid protects us from harmful bacteria—what we may ingest with foods is fried by this strong acid. HCL also helps keep the three pounds of bacteria found in the colon from moving up into the small intestine. If this happens, “bad” bacteria and yeast can establish a foothold in the intestine, resulting in less than optimum absorption of nutrients and inflamed intestines.


Ej skal nok være lidt mere nede på jorden

Det kan godt være lidt svært at se ting så småt når man er så højtflyvende og har så lidt jordforbindelse som jeg har...

Det er godt at være kritisk...

Så laver man ikke så mange fejl...

Man bliver bare nærsynet istedet ;)

Men lad os nu bare blive enige om der hvor det hele startede

Phosphorsyre giver mere potent udbytte end saltsyre

Så fik vi sat det på plads

Mvh. Astral


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 Titel:
Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 02:31 
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In our memories
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Mavesyre er saltsyre! (HCl)

In case you didn't know... ;)

Astral skrev:
Phosphorsyre giver mere potent udbytte end saltsyre


Det tvivler jeg på... Har du nogen referencer på det?

Eddikesyre bliver typisk brugt til at isolere alkaloider fra botanisk materiale, men personligt ville jeg holde mig til HCl-saltet, som også er det mest "potente" rent dosis-mæssigt, da det vejer mindst.


Senest rettet af Dextrose 07 jun 2005 02:36, rettet i alt 2 gange.

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Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 02:33 
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In our memories
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Tilmeldt: 29 dec 2001 02:01
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Dextrose skrev:
Det tvivler jeg på... Har du nogen referencer på det?

Eddikesyre bliver typisk brugt til at isolere alkaloider fra botanisk materiale, men personligt ville jeg holde mig til HCl-saltet, som også er det mest "potente" rent dosis-mæssigt, da det vejer mindst.


Din natteravn ;)

Foresten jeg vil ønske dig held og lykke på din Ayahuasca rejse

GLÆD DIG!! :)

Det er godt!

Det er lidt sent at lede efter reference nu for mit eget vedkommende men imorgen, der har vi en aftale hvis jeg ikke glemme det...

Jeg vil snart ned og ryge noget pot inden jeg lægger mig ;)

I morgen finder jeg referencer

Mvh. AStral


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Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 08:22 
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Insane psychedelia user!

Tilmeldt: 05 sep 2003 01:01
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Nu er phosphorsyre jo en trivalent syre, men ved afspaltning af første proton ligger pKs på 2,12 hvor pKs for saltsyre er -6, så vidt jeg kan se. Nu ved jeg ikke om det betyder noget for selve reaktionen at phosphorsyre er trivalent, men hvis man skal have fat i den stærkeste syre, så er det ihvertfald saltsyre, i det her tilfælde. Er der sådan andre egenskaber ved hver enkelt af de to syrer, som er værd at nævne, udover pKs, hvis man skal bruge det til ekstraktion?


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Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 08:35 
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Astral det er hellerikke HCI men HCl, der er en stor forskel...

Det viser jo bare lidt om, hvor lidt dine "kilder" ved om det, de udtaler sig om :wink:


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Indlæg: 07 jun 2005 13:59 
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noname skrev:
Astral det er hellerikke HCI men HCl, der er en stor forskel...

Det viser jo bare lidt om, hvor lidt dine "kilder" ved om det, de udtaler sig om :wink:


Nej du tager fejl...

Der findes to betegnelser for EN og samme ting

HCI og HCL de bruges for at betegne det samme

jeg ved godt at chlorid forkortes med CI

FÅ DIG NOGEN KILDER SOM IK BARE ER DANSKE

MEN FUCK HVOR ER DET LIGEGYLDIGT NÅR DU JO GODT VED HVA JEG SNAKKER OM :D

Du er jo bare en ordgejler...

Det er sq bare fucking ordkløveri prøv at lav en søgning på googles over HCL og HCI og sammenlign inden du plapre for meget ud ;)


Senest rettet af Astral 07 jun 2005 14:18, rettet i alt 1 gang.

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Dextrose skrev:
Mavesyre er saltsyre! (HCl)
Citat:

In case you didn't know... ;)

Nøøøj det vidste jeg sørme ikke ;)

Nu er det ikke alle som læser kemi på dansk :roll:

Nogen læser det på engelsk...

Og der bruges HCL basta basta, er ligeså stædig som dig

Se selv her

http://www.answers.com/topic/hydrochloric-acid

ystematic name Hydrochloric acid
Other names Muriatic acid
Molecular formula HCl dissolved in water (H2O)
Molar mass 34.46 g/mol (HCl)
Appearance Clear liquid, colourless
to light yellow. High
concentrations fume
CAS number [7647-01-0] (HCl)

Chemistry


Acid titration

Hydrogen chloride (HCl) is a monoprotic acid, which can dissociate (i.e., ionize) only once to give up one H+ ion (a single proton). In aqueous hydrochloric acid, the H+ joins a water molecule to form a hydronium ion.
HCl + H2O → H3O+ + Cl-

The other ion formed is Cl- or chloride ion. Hydrochloric acid can therefore be used to prepare salts called chlorides, such as sodium chloride. Hydrochloric acid is considered a strong acid, since it is practically fully dissociated in water.


Molecular model of hydrogen chloride.

Monoprotic acids have one acid dissociation constant, Ka, which indicates the level of dissociation in water. For a strong acid like HCl, Ka is large. Theoretical attempts to assign a Ka to HCl have been made; see [1]. When chloride salts such as NaCl are added to aqueous HCl they have practically no effect on pH, indicating that Cl- is an exceedingly weak conjugate base and that HCl is fully dissociated in aqueous solution. For intermediate to strong solutions of hydrochloric acid, the assumption that H+ molarity (a unit of concentration) equals HCl molarity is excellent, agreeing to four significant digits.

Der lærte du (måske) noget nyt KLOGE DEX! :P

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=851

Citat:
Another dreamer who I shared this with, who is experienced with hcl tec, said that he felt the phos tec was much stronger.[/quoute]

Astral skrev:
Phosphorsyre giver mere potent udbytte end saltsyre


Det tvivler jeg på... Har du nogen referencer på det?

Eddikesyre bliver typisk brugt til at isolere alkaloider fra botanisk materiale, men personligt ville jeg holde mig til HCl-saltet, som også er det mest "potente" rent dosis-mæssigt, da det vejer mindst.


Ja dit overkritiske kemi geni! JEg har fundet noget til din glubbene kemi appetit ;)

JEg har sparet dig for en omgang UTFSE!

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=851

Greetings, valued friends.

I have had a lot of private requests to post about this method (as told to me by a magical hummingbird in a magical dream).

It seems that it might be time to do so, here, in this forum.

I hope this is the correct decision.

I trust that people will use this dream imagery with great care and resposibility... and sobriety.

If you dream of it, PLEASE... get the quantities right! Someone really messed that up a while back and had an unpleasant over acid reaction.

Done properly, it will produce a dream brew that is a good bit less acidic than a coke, and works wonderfully.

So the delightful creature appears in a dream and says...

"I have used phosphoric two ways.

First way is pretty much a traditional brewing , but with phos.

Now, 20 drops of 10% food grade phosphoric acid in 1/2 gal of distilled water = ph3... Please be sure to get that right!

So, place the herbs in the solution at a ratio of at least 20/1 solution/herbs, (by ounces).

Soak 1-3 days (the longer the better), in mason jar, shake vigorously as much as is practical, (several times a day).

Then simmer 3x (no boiling) for three hours or so, each simmer.

For 2nd simmer, use 1/2 as much acid, for 3rd use plain distilled h2o.

If you like, make the 3rd simmer longer, as you feel.

Each extraction is filtered through a permanent wire mesh coffee filter, then put in fridge for at least a day to completely settle.

Then carefully decant, leaving the sediment, combine, and gently reduce to 4-6 oz, total, per dream serving.

This tec has (in dreams) produced exceptional results with vine/leaf combo.
--------------

2nd tec... Long cold soak for rootbark (powdered, by dreamer)

Same solution, same ratio.

1st soak, 4-5 days in fridge shaking often. Filter, place in fridge to settle.

2nd soak, 4-5 days in fridge, with 1/2 the amount of acid, shaking often. filter, place in fridge to settle.

3rd soak (might be optional, it's pretty pale) 1-2 days, plain distilled water, shake, filter, place in fridge to settle.

After all the extractions have completely settled, VERY carefully decant, combine, and gently reduce to 2-3 oz per dream serving. Then in a dream, drink after drinking a caapi brew (2-3 oz) made with the other tec.

This cold soak bark tec has produced marvelous results, but...

WARNING!!! It is VERY STRONG!

A dreamer who has dreamed of as much as 33g of bark with another less effective tec, (DON"T TRY!) was fairly blown away by 8g! No kidding!

Another dreamer who I shared this with, who is experienced with hcl tec, said that he felt the phos tec was much stronger.

It seems that much of the magic here is in the fantastic absorption qualities of phos.

BTW, it's MUCH better tasting, as well. (compared to lemon or ascorbic)

You can probably use less acid, but the resulting brew is close to ph5, which is MUCH higher than a coke, and has produced no problems to date.

I have confidence that the cold tec would be equally as magical with vine/leaf, especially if one dreams of Hawaaian leaf, by far the best in the world.

I will try that soon.

Remember, both tecs will be significantly stronger than those with less effective acids, so adjust your amounts accordingly...

AND PROCEED WITH CARE AND RESPONSIBILTY!

Please love and take good care of yourself... PLEASE!"

Then he flew away at what seemed to be nearly the speed of light!

If there are any questions, I will pass them on next time I am graced with a visitation...

Be well, and sweet dreams...

Nap

http://www.pjonline.com/Editorial/20010 ... /salt.html

Home > PJ > Articles


The Pharmaceutical Journal Vol 266 No 7138 p322-323
March 10, 2001

Articles

Changing the salt, changing the drug
By Glynis Davies, BSc, MRPharmS

Changing the salt form of a drug affects its clinical efficacy and safety. This article discusses the potential issues related to the use of different salts of drugs


Changing a drug from its free base or acid to a salt form is commonly done to improve its kinetics, absorption or physicochemical properties (eg, stability, hygroscopicity and flowability). Changing the salt form of a drug is a recognised means of modifying its chemical and biological properties without modifying its structure. Different salts of the same active drug are distinct products with their own chemical and biological profiles that underlie differences in their clinical efficacy and safety.

There is, as yet, no reliable way of predicting exactly what effect changing the salt form of an active drug will have on its biological activity, and the supposition that the same salt form of two related parent compounds will behave in exactly the same way may not be correct. The literature contains many examples of salt forms that differ in the rate of absorption, toxicity and stability of the active drug.

Salt formation

Salts are formed by the reaction of an acid with a base. Any compound with the characteristics of either an acid or a base can, in theory, form a salt, but whether or not a salt is formed depends on the relative strength of the acid or base. When a drug is formulated as a salt, the particular salt form determines the physiochemical properties of the product: stability, solubility and dissolution rate. These properties influence how the drug is handled by the body: how it is absorbed, distributed, eliminated and excreted. The biological activity of a drug at its target site depends not only on its structure and effect at that site, but also on how readily it can reach the site and how readily it is removed from it.

Selecting an appropriate salt form for a drug is an important factor in the early stages of new drug development.1 The monoprotic hydrochlorides are the most frequent choice of anionic salt-forming radicals, with hydrochloride salts outnumbering sulphates by nearly six to one and forming the largest percentage of salts in use.2 A decision to change the salt form at a later stage introduces the need to repeat toxicological, formulation and stability tests, with obvious implications for the overall development and production time for the new pharmaceutical product.

Once a drug has been marketed, there may be sound reasons for reformulating it in a different salt form to change its physicochemical properties. An example is provided by the analgesic propoxyphene, which was originally formulated as a hydrochloride salt. Propoxyphene was widely used in a fixed-dose combination with aspirin, but since aspirin proved to be unstable in close physical contact with propoxyphene hydrochloride, an additional step in the manufacturing process was needed to separate the two analgesics. When propoxyphene was reformulated as a napsylate salt, there was no problem of aspirin instability. The relative insolubility of the napsylate salt form compared with the hydrochloride was also an advantage, as it reduced the potential for parenteral abuse of propoxyphene.

Substitution of one salt form of a drug for another can also change the rate of absorption and other pharmacokinetic variables, as well as toxic potential and stability, and all these properties can affect the biological activity of a drug and the clinical use of the formulation.

Rate of absorption

Salts differ in their solubility profiles and dissolution rates, which affect the rate of absorption of the drug and, in turn, the onset, duration, and intensity of its effect.2 The bioavailability of a drug can therefore be modified by administering it in a different salt form. For example, a study of the relative bioavailability of the vasodilator naftidrofuryl in oxalate and citrate salt forms has shown that the relative rate of absorption is higher for the citrate than for the clinically used oxalate form of the drug.3

An example of salt substitution changing the intensity of biological response to a drug is again provided by propoxyphene. This established analgesic was first marketed in the United States in the form of a hydrochloride salt more than 40 years ago. When it was reformulated, the new napsylate salt form was found to have greater potency and a longer duration of action than the hydrochloride, attributable to differences in the rates of absorption of the two salt forms.4,5 Another example of the variation in biological activity with salt form is provided by calcium preparations. Brand-name preparations, each containing a different calcium salt with a different absorption rate, are reported to vary significantly in their ability to suppress secretion of parathyroid hormone.6 This has implications for their clinical use as calcium supplementation in osteoporosis.

Moving from clinical practice to veterinary medicine, a further example is provided by the anthelmintic pyrantel. The pamoate salt of pyrantel is reported to be three times as effective as the citrate against large bowel parasites, including resistant strains, because of its lower rate of absorption and consequently greater retention in the gastrointestinal tract.7

Toxicity

Some cations and anions are known to be associated with toxic effects and will contribute to the intrinsic toxicity of the salt form. For example, lithium cations have no toxic effect in small quantities but when ingested in large amounts can cause irreversible damage to the kidney. Similarly, tartrate anions, which are usually absorbed only minimally from the gastrointestinal tract, can cause renal damage if they reach the circulation in high concentrations.2 In addition, pravadoline maleate caused renal tubular lesions in the dog, as a result of maleic acid formed from the maleate anion.8

Changing the salt form of a drug can reduce its toxic potential. Typically, a salt that is slowly absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract is less toxic than one with a more rapid rate of absorption. For example, propoxyphene napsylate has an acute oral toxicity half that of propoxyphene hydrochloride when given to rats or mice in equimolar doses; this is due to the more gradual absorption of the napsylate.9 Furthermore, in animal models, the napsylate appears to lack the convulsant properties of the hydrochloride.

Local irritancy Different salt forms can differ in their capacity to cause oesophageal irritation. For example, alprenolol in the form of the hydrochloride salt has an irritant effect on the oesophagus and can cause oesophageal ulceration in humans, whereas alprenolol benzoate has no irritant effects.10 The difference in ulcerogenic potential has been related to the difference in solubility of the salts: alprenolol hydrochloride is highly water soluble and therefore may cause local damage due to local absorption, whereas alprenolol benzoate has low water solubility.

Different salt forms can also differ in the level of irritancy to the gastrointestinal tract, which may result in ulceration or bleeding. Nitrate anions are known to cause local irritancy to the gastrointestinal tract leading to nausea and gastric distress.2 Lithium salts irritate the gastrointestinal mucosa, an effect due predominantly to the anion moiety rather than the lithium cation. The effect is more marked, with greater discomfort to the patient, the greater the amount of anion administered.11

Reaction products Different salt forms of a drug can differ in toxicity because of reaction products in their manufacture. Reaction between the cation or anion moiety of the salt and impurities associated either with the active drug or arising from the manufacturing process can result in the formation of toxic products. For example, formic acid has relatively low intrinsic toxicity, but its salts are often contaminated with highly toxic methyl and ethyl formate esters, which are reaction-solvent side products.12

Stability

The particular salt form of a drug can affect its stability. For example, the stability of a drug formulated for administration as tablets can be affected by the hygroscopicity of the salt form. Salts of mineral acids such as hydrochlorides, sulphates and methane sulphonates are highly polar. The polar ionised groups exposed on crystal surfaces create a highly hydrophilic surface favouring wettability and leading to hygroscopicity.13 In turn, this can reduce stability, particularly if the drug is susceptible to hydrolytic degradation.

Stability is also influenced by the hydrophobicity of the salt-forming acid. The formation of salts with low water solubility is a means of increasing the chemical stability of a drug that is sensitive to heat and moisture, such as xilobam. Stability is an issue for xilobam tablets containing the highly soluble sulphate salt of the drug, because the salt is readily hydrolysed and dissolves in surface moisture. However, when the salt-forming acid is aryl sulphonic acid, the hydophobic aryl group presents a barrier to dissolution and this salt form of xilobam is more stable when exposed to high temperature and humidity.14

Thermal stability can vary from one salt form of a drug to another. For example, the hydrochloride salt of lincomycin undergoes thermal degradation whereas the cyclamate is significantly more stable.15 Similarly, the procaine salt of penicillin G has good aqueous stability but poor thermal stability, unlike sodium or potassium salts of the antibiotic, which can withstand prolonged exposure (four days) to temperatures of 100C.16

Conclusion

Different salt forms of a drug differ in ways that can impact on their clinical efficacy and safety. Changing the salt form varies the solubility and rate of dissolution of a drug, which in turn affects its bioavailability, pharmacokinetic profile, toxicity, and chemical stability. Early selection of an appropriate salt form in the development of a new drug will influence the timely completion of drug development and production, an important factor in accelerating the process of drug discovery.

Substitution of one salt form for another can accelerate the onset and duration of biological activity of a drug and is a recognised means of reducing its toxic potential or improving its chemical stability. It is important to remember, however, that since changing the salt can dramatically change the properties of a drug, every salt form of a drug should be considered as a new medicinal product and tested appropriately before it is released for use in clinical practice.
References

1. Tong W-Q, Whitesell G. In situ salt screening: a useful technique for discovery support and preformulation studies. Pharm Dev Technol 1998;3:215-23.
2. Berge SM, Bighley LD, Monkhouse DC. Pharmaceutical salts. J Pharm Sci 1977;66:1-19.
3. Walmsley LM, Taylor T, Wilkinson PA, Brodie RR, Chasseaud LF, Alun-Jones V et al. Plasma concentrations and relative bioavailability of naftidrofuryl from different salt forms. Biopharm Drug Dispos 1986;7:327-34.
4. Baptisti A, Gruber CM, Santos EL. The effectiveness and side effect liability of propoxyphene hydrochloride and propoxyphene napsylate in patients with postpartum uterine cramping. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1971;19:519-27.
5. Sunshine A, Laska E, Slafta J, Fleischman E. A comparative analgesia study of propoxyphene hydrochloride, propoxyphene napsylate, and placebo. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1971; 19:512-18.
6. Deroisy R, Zartarian M, Meurmans L, Nelissenne N, Micheletti MC, Albert A et al. Acute changes in serum calcium and parathyroid hormone circulating levels induced by the oral intake of five currently available calcium salts in healthy male volunteers. Clin Rheumatol 1997;16:249-53.
7. Bjorn H, Hennessy DR, Friis C. The kinetic disposition of pyrantel citrate and pamoate and their efficacy against pyrantel-resistant Oesophagostomum dentatum in pigs. Int J Parasitol 1996;26:1375-80.
8. Everett RM, Descotes G, Rollin M, Greener Y, Bradford JC, Benziger DP et al. Nephrotoxicity of pravadoline maleate (WIN 48098-6) in dogs: evidence of maleic acid-induced acute tubular necrosis. Fundam Appl Toxicol 1993;21:59-65.
9. Emmerson JL, Gibson WR, Anderson RC. Acute toxicity of propoxyphene salts. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1971;19:445-51.
10. Olovson S-G, Havu N, Regardh C-G, Sandberg A. Oesophageal ulcerations and plasma levels of different alprenolol salts: potential implications for the clinic. Acta Pharmacol Toxicol 1986;58:55-60.
11. Altamura AC, Gomeni R, Sacchetti E, Smeraldi E. Plasma and intracellular kinetics of lithium after oral administration of various lithium salts. Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1977;12:59-63.
12. von Oettingen WF. The aliphatic acids and their esters: toxicity and potential dangers. AMA Arch Ind Health 1959;20:59-65.
13. Gould PL. Salt selection for basic drugs. Int J Pharm 1986; 33:201-17.
14. Walkling WD, Reynolds BE, Fegely BJ, Janicki CA. Xilobam: effect of salt form on pharmaceutical properties. Drug Dev Ind Pharm 1983;9:809-19.
15. Neville GA, Ethier JC. Characterization of some lincomycin and cyclamate salts by thermal analysis and infrared spectroscopy. J Assoc Off Anal Chem 1971;54:1200-10.
16. Buckwalter FH. Antibiotic formulations. J Am Pharm Assoc Prac Ed 1954;15:694-700.


Glynis Davies is a pharmacist and medical writer. Correspondence to
19 Llys Preswylfa, Mold, Clwyd CH7 1UP

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©The Pharmaceutical Journal

http://www.bluelight.nu/vb/showthread.p ... phosphoric

his is from the old rhodium:


Monobasic Phosphate Of 1-Phenyl-2-Aminopropane

Theodore V. Goggia

United States Patent 2,907,468

My invention relates to a new chemical compound that is especially suited for therapeutic use. More particularly it concerns the monobasic phosphate of 1-phenyl-2-aminopropane, a method of preparing it, and therapeutic compositions containing this salt.

It is known that 1-phenyl-2-aminopropane (commonly referred to as "amphetamine") and certain of its salts have a pronounced therapeutic effect, particularly as stimulants for the central nervous system. This is evidenced by a feeling of well-being and energy, as well as by a reduction of appetite and desire to sleep. The foregoing effects render these compounds of substantial value in the treatment of various pathologic conditions, such as despondency, fatigue, alcoholism, narcolepsy, obesity and the like. Unfortunately, the beneficial effects of these known compounds are accompanied by certain deleterious effects, particularly an undesirable stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system, frequently resulting in uncontrollable jitteriness. Often a cumulative effect of repeated dosages is evidenced by a disagreeable "hang-over." Furthermore, the known compounds leave much to be desired in one or more respects, such as solubility, stability, metabolism, etc.

It is an object of my invention to provide a novel salt of 1-phenyl-2-aminopropane which possesses the above-mentioned beneficial effects to an unusual extent, and which at the same time possesses the deleterious effects referred to previously to a lesser extent than was heretofore deemed possible. A further object is to provide such a salt having improved physical properties, compared to the known salts. and which is subject to more economical utilization by the body.

Another object is to prepare the new salt in a simple, expeditious manner, whereby a high degree of purity, excellent physical form and great stability are assured. A still further object is to make available various therapeutic compositions particularly adapted for the treatment of obesity and of dysmenorrhea, in which my novel salt is combined with other therapeutically active constituents for maximum desired effect. Additional objects will become apparent from a consideration of the following description and claims.

The foregoing objects are accomplished in accordance with my invention which is particularly concerned with the monobasic phosphate salt of 1-phenyl-2-aminopropane. This novel compound will hereinafter sometimes be referred to as "monobasic amphetamine phosphate" or "amphetamine dihydrogen phosphate." Said salt formed by the combination of equimolecular amounts of the amphetamine base and phosphoric acid. It is distinguished from the dibasic (monohydrogen) and tribasic (fully neutralized) forms, since these contain two and three mots, respectively, of amphetamine for each mol of phosphoric acid. My new salt may be represented by the following structural formula:

The novel amphetamine dihydrogen phosphate may exist in the dextro- or levo- rotary forms or as a racemic mixture thereof, depending upon the form of the base from which it is derived. In practice, I prefer to employ the racemic form and the specific data hereinafter given concerning the physical characteristics of the salt apply to this form of the salt.

My monobasic amphetamine phosphate is a white, impalpable powder that is freely soluble in water and sparingly soluble or insoluble in most organic solvents. It is not demonstrably hygroscopic and is completely stable under ordinary conditions of storage. It begins to sinter at 145°C., becomes a clear amorphous mass without liquefaction at 147°C, and retains the latter form up to about 285°C. at which point it begins to decompose with the evolution of a gas (probably CO2). Its melting point could therefore not be determined.

My new salt may be prepared by adding to amphetamine an equimolecular amount of phosphoric acid. The amount of phosphoric acid required may either be calculated beforehand or else controlled by observing the pH of the reaction mixture and discontinuing the addition as soon as the desired pH value is reached. The pH of a 10% solution of my new salt at a temperature of 25°C is 4.95-5.00 determined colorimetrically and electrometrically. The neutralization reaction is strongly exothermic and, unless modified and controlled in a manner such as will be hereinafter described, results only in a chemical mass consisting of varying proportions of the three possible phosphates with, under certain circumstances, an excess of base or of acid intermingled.

I have found that the necessary control of the reaction may be achieved by having present a substantial amount of a solvent for the amphetamine. One may employ a solution of the amphetamine in water or in an organic solvent such as carbon tetrachloride, ethylene glycol, propyl alcohol, chloroform, acetone and the like. The organic solvents, particularly acetone, are preferred. The phosphoric acid is slowly added to such an amphetamine solution under constant agitation. . After the precise amount required to form the monobasic salt has been added, agitation is continued for up to a half hour or more to insure complete conversion of the base to the desired salt. When an organic solvent such as acetone is employed, the salt separates in the form of a fine, white, flocculent precipitate that becomes more and more dense and abundant as the reaction proceeds. The precipitate may be separated by filtration and, when dried, is in a very suitable form for compounding in various therapeutic preparations.

The following example will serve to illustrate the preparation of my new salt. The invention is, of course, not limited, to the details given therein.

Example

135 grams (1 mol) of amphetamine (1-phenyl-2-aminopropane) were stirred into 300 mL of acetone in a stainless-steel vessel. To the resultant solution there were slowly added under constant agitation 115.3 grams of 85% phosphoric acid (containing 1 mol of H3PO4), care being taken to avoid any sudden rise in temperature or local overheating due to the considerable amount of heat that is evolved. During the addition of the phosphoric acid a fine white, flocculent precipitate appears which becomes more and more dense and abundant, as the quantity of added acid increases.

When the entire quantity of the phosphoric acid has thus been added, agitation of the mixture is continued for about a half hour or more to insure complete conversion. The precipitate is then allowed to settle, the supernatant liquid is drawn off, and the residue is filtered. The precipitate thus separated may, if desired, be washed with acetone and is then dried by evaporation to constant weight. It forms a fine, white, impalpable powder consisting of pure monobasic amphetamine phosphate. When employing the racemic amphetamine, a racemic salt is formed having the physical characteristics hereinbefore described.

My new salt, obtained as described above, may, if desired, be ground to such a fineness that it will pass through a 100 mesh sieve. It is then ready for compounding into various forms and preparations for therapeutic use. For example, it may be incorporated in the customary extenders or excipients, such as milk sugar, and made into tablets, each containing a predetermined dosage of the salt, such as 5 or 10 mg. Another convenient and desirable form for oral administration is obtained by incorporating my new salt in the coating of a standard form of chicle chewing gum. In such case the entire dosage of the salt is preferably incorporated in an intermediate layer of the coating, so that it will be quickly available and yet protected by an outer layer.

An important advantage of my new salt lies in its ready solubility in water. It is about six times as soluble as either the dibasic phosphate or the dibasic sulfate. Thus a quicker and more intense therapeutic action is assured. The action is also less persistent from the standpoint of cumulation that may result in a "hang-over" feeling.

Based upon extensive experience in human therapy, I have determined that the monobasic amphetamine phosphate is more effective, dose for dose, than is the dibasic amphetamine sulfate, which is the best known of the amphetamine salts. This is indeed surprising, because my new salt contains less of the amphetamine base than does an equal quantity of the dibasic sulfate. It follows that the amphetamine is far more potent in the form of the monobasic phosphate, than in the form of the salt most widely used today.

While my salt is more. effective, dose for dose, than the dibasic sulfate, insofar as the desired stimulation of the central nervous system is concerned, it produces less undesirable side-effects attributable to stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system. This may be due to the fact that it contains less of the amphetamine base. However, that does not explain why the desired therapeutic effects are not similarly diminished, but rather substantially enhanced. It appears that the undesirable side-effects are distinct from the desired effects of these salts, insofar as dosage is concerned, and it is probable that the desired effects are favorably influenced by the presence of phosphoric acid. It is well known that phosphates in general are metabolized more readily than are the sulfates which are foreign to the physiologic processes of the body. Regardless of what may be the true explanation, the, fact remains that the desired effects can be produced with my new salt, while greatly diminishing or completely eliminating the undesired effects that were heretofore considered inevitable in the therapeutic use of amphetamine salts.
References Cited

The following references are of record in the file of this patent:
Patents

US 2,358,582 - Haffner et al., Aug. 22, 1944
US 2,361,373 - Alles, Oct. 31, 1944
AU 117,996 - July 10, 1943
AU 119,265 - Nov. 21, 1944
Other References

Bakas, "Zentralblatt für Gynokologie," vol. 34, pages 1893-1898 (193.
Chinoin, "Klinische Wochenschrift" vol. 13, page 483 (April 1939).
Stepan, "Chemical Abstracts," vol. 37, page 3565 (1943).
Torok, "Chemical Abstracts," vol. 32, page 2211 (193.
Degering, "An Outline of Organic Nitrogen Compounds," (Univ. Lithoprinters, 1945) page 304.
Hygiea Medicinsk Tidskrift, Vol. 102, pages 1635-1642 (1940).
Decision of District CL N. J. Septi. 1, 190, 66 USPQ 440,463, 467,469,


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Lad da vær med at spam tråden med at din google-mani. Nøjes med at post linket, please 8)


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Astral skrev:
Der lærte du (måske) noget nyt KLOGE DEX! :P


Nope... Titrering af syrer, og syre-konstanter var noget af det første vi havde om på Kemi B.

Til din information læser jeg også kun engelsk kemi i fritiden.

Astral skrev:
Nej du tager fejl...
Der findes to betegnelser for EN og samme ting
HCI og HCL de bruges for at betegne det samme
jeg ved godt at chlorid forkortes med CI


WRONG!

Tillad mig lige at informere igen; Der er ikke noget der hedder HCL eller HCI!
Der er Hydrogen Chlorid = HCl = Saltsyre.
Så findes der HI (Hydrogen Iodid) som er en nasty syre man ikke arbejder med derhjemme.

Jeg har svært ved at tage din "reference" seriøst.
Det er jo bare en subjektiv kommentar fra en tilfældig fyr på et webboard, der "syntes at det føltes bedre".

Og hvilken relevans har dit quote af dannelsen af amfetamin-fosfat ud fra freebasen med dette at gøre?

Jeg er godt klar over hvordan man danner forskellige salte af aminer - er du ???


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Her er noget for dig, som jeg sagde tidligere når man er for kritisk bliver man nemt nærsynet

http://www.visinfo.dk/forlag/online/Fag ... pter06.htm

Træk nu vejret

Citat:
Udvikling af kultveilte

Materialer:
Stativ
Reagensglasklemme
Stort reagensglas
Tragt (eventuelt)
Saltsyre (HCl) (2N - 6N)
Marmorflager
CO2-indikator (eventuelt)
Tændstikker
Træpinde


Altså HCL = Saltsyre (lad dig ikke nare, det bogstav som ligner et I er slet ikke et i men et L)

Dextrose skrev:

Nope... Titrering af syrer, og syre-konstanter var noget af det første vi havde om på Kemi B.


Kære DEX

Ok det var jo godt for dig...

Er glad på dine vegne at du er startet i skolen igen

Dextrose skrev:
Til din information læser jeg også kun engelsk kemi i fritiden.


Det var dog fantastisk...

WRONG!

Nå okay, så siger vi det...

Kig her:

De tager vel også fejl, for kun Dex har ret!

http://www.miljodatanoglen.dk/ordliste.htm

HCl: Saltsyre. Stærk syre, som dannes ved forbrænding af materialer, der indeholder organiske klorforbindelser, bl.a. PVC. Almindeligt forekommende ved forbrænding af affald, men fjernes ved rensning. HCl medfører forsuring i miljøet.

Hva er så Muriatic Acid?
Det SKULLE vel aldrig have noget med Hydrochlorid(syre) (?)

YEP du gættede det.... (forhåbentligt)

Dextrose skrev:
Tillad mig lige at informere igen; Der er ikke noget der hedder HCL eller HCI!


Jo der gør Kære Dex for hvis du opløser det i vand så er det det samme

Desuden så kan du prøve at kigge lidt inde på http://www.Ayahuasca.com og søge på HCL du vil blive overrasket over hvor almindelig betegnelsen HCL er, om du synes det er rigtigt eller forkert er egentlig irrelevant for hvis jeg vil kalde hypotetisk saltsyre for noget helt andet, f.eks. hvis jeg var kineser så er det stadig rigtigt

Prøv nu at lav en søgning på HCL det findes, trust me...

Dextrose skrev:
Der er Hydrogen Chlorid = HCl = Saltsyre.
Så findes der HI (Hydrogen Iodid) som er en nasty syre man ikke arbejder med derhjemme.


Og så er der HCL (saltsyre)

Dextrose skrev:
Jeg har svært ved at tage din "reference" seriøst.
Det er jo bare en subjektiv kommentar fra en tilfældig fyr på et webboard, der "syntes at det føltes bedre".


Du har svært ved at tage andre seriøst, fordi du tror du er så seriæs selv
Men du tager ikke dig selv seriøs, ellers havde du ikke været optaget af lige præcis at skulle blive ved så længe, når vi jo har forstået hinanden og du bare vil ordkløves...

Dextrose skrev:
Og hvilken relevans har dit quote af dannelsen af amfetamin-fosfat ud fra freebasen med dette at gøre?


Måske hvis du læser HELE artiklen så vil du finde ud af det

Dextrose skrev:
Jeg er godt klar over hvordan man danner forskellige salte af aminer - er du ???


Neeeeej sådan noget kan jeg sleeet ik finde ud af, sådan noget er Dex meeeget bedre til...

Tilykke

Hehe tag det ikke ilde op, synes bare det er latterligt at diskutere så ligegyldige ting....

Vi kom fra om Phosforsyre virkede bedre

OG det gør det

At du ikke vil tro det er jeg egentlig ligeglad med

Men hold venligst din bedrevidenhed lidt mere i ro

For der er altså folk som ved bedre end dig

Og det er dem med den efaring som du ikke har

Kom igen når du har noget praktisk erfaring (Med Ayahuasca)

Så kan vi tale om noget mere sjovt end om vi skal kalde saltsyre for HCI eller HCL som jo egentlig er det samme når det er opløst i vand

Mvh. Astra


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I er så søde :)

_________________
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Saltsyre / Muriatic Acid / Hydrogen Chlorid / HCl = STORT "H", STORT "C", LILLE "L" - Fat det nu!

Det er FUCKING vigtigt at skrive kapitalerne rigtigt når man skriver kemi!

Tillad mig at gentage mig selv:

Citat:
Saltsyre er Hydrogen og Chlorid (H + Cl)

"HCL" ville være Hydrogen + Carbon + ???

Der er ikke noget grundstof der er betegnet med L!


Ergo er der ikke noget kemisk stof der betegnes HCL - Det eksisterer bare ikke!

Og ja, der er folk der ved bedre end mig på dette område, men du er bestemt ikke en af dem!

Og jeg har læst artiklen igennem vedr. amfetamin-fosfat, der står ikke så meget andet end at det er mindre hygroskopisk og muligvis mere stabilt end sulfatet, og at det hurtigere bliver metaboliseret end sulfatet.

Men der står intet om optagelsen af fosfatet kontra hydroklorid-saltet, som denne diskussion drejer sig om.

Jeg holder stadig på at hydroklorid-saltet bliver hurtigere optaget oralt end fosfatet, netop fordi at HCl-anionen er mindre end fosfat-anionen.

...Der er en årsag til at jeg ikke diskuterer fodbold med folk, og det er at jeg ikke ved en skid om fodbold, og dermed undgår at gøre mig selv til grin, nøjagtigt som du gør dig selv max. til grin i dette post!

Btw, hvad kan du bruge 20 års Ayahuasca-erfaring til på arbejdsmarkedet? IKKE EN FUCKING SKID!
Så kan du have nok så meget klarsyn, men hvad hjælper det dig, når du ikke kan få et job?
Ayahuasca-komponenter og mad koster jo også penge...

Stay in school kids, don't do drugs! :roll:


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Astral fordi de andre børn går over for rødt, gør det ikke mere rigtigt at du også gør det. Hvis en flok idioter på et narkoboard ikke forstår at saltsyre har formlen HCl, og ikke HCL, så lad det være deres problem, men lad vær med at gøre det til fakta som om "det skriver de andre steder - og derfor må det kunne skrives på begge måder". Saltsyre bliver til H+ og Cl- i vandig opløsning og derfor skriver man det som HCl, da chlor i det periodiske system, som er det man bruger i kemi, har bogstaverne Cl og Hydrogen H.

Hold kæft en latterlig diskussion egentlig.


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Treasure skrev:
Astral fordi de andre børn går over for rødt, gør det ikke mere rigtigt at du også gør det. Hvis en flok idioter på et narkoboard ikke forstår at saltsyre har formlen HCl, og ikke HCL, så lad det være deres problem, men lad vær med at gøre det til fakta som om "det skriver de andre steder - og derfor må det kunne skrives på begge måder". Saltsyre bliver til H+ og Cl- i vandig opløsning og derfor skriver man det som HCl, da chlor i det periodiske system, som er det man bruger i kemi, har bogstaverne Cl og Hydrogen H.

Hold kæft en latterlig diskussion egentlig.


Jamen du har ret

Jeg skal for en god ordens skyld fremover kalde saltsyre for HCI for at undgå flere misforståelser og lad os så komme tilbage til emnet! :)

Som er phosphorsyre

Og IKKE HCI/saltsyre

Phosphor = Krebs

Salt = Jomfru

Dex>Man kan også gå så meget i skole at man blir dummere...

Og det med at sige at man ikke skal tage stoffer, er du nok den sidste til at sq sige ;)

Og det er sq da også dejligt at få ret engang imellem ik Dex ;)

Ej det er i orden... Synes bare det er en pedantisk

Vi snakkede om Phosphorsyre ikke fucking saltsyre

Jeg holder stadig på at Phosphorsyre giver bedre resultat

Men jeg vil råde dig til at prøve det i praksis, det har jeg ihvertfald tænkt mig

Så kan vi jo se hva som er rigtigt

Mvh. AStral


Senest rettet af Astral 07 jun 2005 18:37, rettet i alt 4 gange.

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Jeg elsker Psychedelia :lol:


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Nu er jeg lost... siger du at phosphorsyre har formlem HCI ? :?

Phosphorsyre er H3PO4 og fraspalter ved hver ækvivalenspunkt en proton. Læs nu hvad Dextrose skriver. Saltsyre skrives, stort "H", Stort "C" og lille "L", da saltsyre er en sammensætning af hydrogen og chlor som i det periodiske system har forbogstaverne H og Cl (lille L - ikke stort "i"!).

Forfandenihelvede - /me banker Astral i hovedet med et meget tungt periodisk system.


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Treasure skrev:
Nu er jeg lost... siger du at phosphorsyre har formlem HCI ? :?

Phosphorsyre er H3PO4 og fraspalter ved hver ækvivalenspunkt en proton. Læs nu hvad Dextrose skriver. Saltsyre skrives, stort "H", Stort "C" og lille "L", da saltsyre er en sammensætning af hydrogen og chlor som i det periodiske system har forbogstaverne H og Cl (lille L - ikke stort "i"!).

Forfandenihelvede - /me banker Astral i hovedet med et meget tungt periodisk system.


Nej nej nej...

Det jeg siger er at emnet ikke drejde sig om saltsyre/HCl eller hva vi kalder det... Muriatic acid Hydrochlorid syre whatever

Det det drejede sig om var Phosphorsyre

Og hvorvidt det var bedre end andre syre

DEX snakker hele tiden om sin saltsyre

som han har i maven

Men jeg tror altså stadig på at phosphorsyre er bedre

Men det er der kun en vej at vise

Og det er ved at prøve og jeg kan kun opfordre folk at prøve så de selv kan vurdere

Dex tror jo ik på andre mennesker på nettet skriver så må folk vel selv prøve at finde ud af det...

Om det er subjektivt, det afhænger om hvor mange subjekter som finder phosphorsyre stærkere kontra saltsyre


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Astral skrev:
Phosphor = Krebs

Salt = Jomfru

Dex>Man kan også gå så meget i skole at man blir dummere...


Astral = Uden jordforbindelse, for dum og doven til at gå i skole.

Hvis det ikke havde været for os "dumme" skole-elever, der kunne besvare dine og andre's kemi-spørgsmål på diverse webboards, havde der nok rendt en hel del tågede hippier rundt med ætsede spiserør!

Nu er "salt" jo bare ikke et grundstof, men en simpel betegnelse for en ion-forbindelse - så hvis vi skal følge din retorik, vil DMT-fosfat både være Krebs og Jomfru.

http://www.webelements.com

Lad mig høre hvad din nødløsning er for resten af livet, sådan som du bortkaster undervisning.

Nasse på systemet?
Sælge hjemmedyrket pot?
Flytte til Peru og lamme dig med Ayahuasca resten af livet?

Selv i U-landende lægger de stor vægt på undervisning!


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Dex>Man kan også gå så meget i skole at man blir dummere...[/quote]

Citat:
Astral = Uden jordforbindelse, for dum og doven til at gå i skole.


Dex = så meget jordforbindelse at han ikke kan tænke så spirituelt
for dum og doven til at tage et selvstudie uden at være afhængig af en skolelære som fortæller en hva man skal lære

Citat:
Hvis det ikke havde været for os "dumme" skole-elever, der kunne besvare dine og andre's kemi-spørgsmål på diverse webboards, havde der nok rendt en hel del tågede hippier rundt med ætsede spiserør!


Jamen det er ikke gået galt endnu, så tak for dine råd

Jeg siger ikke at du er dum, men jeg siger at man kan blive det

Prøv nu og se alle de uddannede læger f.eks.

Man kan faktisk blive uddanet til dumhed... Det er ikke nogen kunst

Og noget siger mig at de har gået i skole noget længere end dig...

Så bare rolig, du har god tid foran dig...

Desuden så kan du ikke sige at fordi man ikke går i skole så er man dum og doven

Det kunne være at man bare gik i en anden skole end du lige forestiller dig...

Det jeg siger er at uddanelsessystemet som det er idag er meget stift og dumt på mange områder...

Men det er svært at se når man er autoritets tro eller allerede har fået en forestilling om at det man lære i skolen er hele sandheden og intet andet end sandheden

Faktisk er det sådan at meget af det man lære er i stik kontrast til hinanden og desuden indeholder fejl og mangler på de mest væsentlige spørgsmål

Du ved måske meget om kemi men ved du ligeså meget om pædagogik?

Jeg siger ikke at jeg ved alt, men jeg ved noget

Og det gør du også

Citat:
Nu er "salt" jo bare ikke et grundstof, men en simpel betegnelse for en ion-forbindelse - så hvis vi skal følge din retorik, vil DMT-fosfat både være Krebs og Jomfru.



Jeg snakker om grundstoffet

Og ja en ting kan være sammensat af begge dele, ligesom en komposition af flere elementer som hver har deres virkemåde og relation til hinanden, aspekter variere alt efter deres tegn

Tak, men det link har jeg allerede fået idag ;)

http://www.webelements.com

Citat:
Lad mig høre hvad din nødløsning er for resten af livet, sådan som du bortkaster undervisning.

Nasse på systemet?
Sælge hjemmedyrket pot?
Flytte til Peru og lamme dig med Ayahuasca resten af livet?

Selv i U-landende lægger de stor vægt på undervisning!


Flytte til Peru er min plan

Jeg modtager undervisning

Bare ikke den undervisnig du forestiller dig

Jeg bortkaster ikke undervisning men jeg bortkaster den undervisning som ikke er tilstrækkelig for mit behov

Jeg tager ikke halve løsninger, min tid er for kostbar til det

At det så gør at jeg har nogen huller i min viden det må jeg bar fylde ud
Men det vigtigste er at man forstår de væsentlige ting
Og det er altså den spirituelle side af livet

Men det gør du for mig, når vi snakker om at skrive enten med småt eller stort, hva sq vi gøre uden den store Dex

Mit fokus er ikke pedantisk materialisme men langt mere...

Du forstår nok meget af det døde

Men hvor meget forstår du af det levende

Mvh. AStral


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Jeg har været selvstuderende i kemi i adskellige år, så flet næbbet.

Der er stadig ikke noget grundstof der hedder "salt".

I det mindst er jeg ikke så ignorant, at jeg ikke kan integrere det med egentligt undervisning - hvorfor skulle jeg bortkaste viden fra folk med mere erfaring?

I din verden vil det jo svare til at du sagde "fuck af med jer, jeg skal nok selv lære det" til DMT-elverne...

Men du kan godt stikke din sarkasme skråt op - man kan sagtens have jordkontakt og lære om naturvidenskab, samtidigt med at man er spirituel.

Er det

forøvrigt

en nødvendighed

for dig



at

absolut

skulle

have

dine posts

til

at

fylde





så meget

som




muligt?


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