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3 kløver hamp? :)
https://psychedelia.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24154
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Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 26 apr 2008 15:49 ]
Titel:  3 kløver hamp? :)

Hej!
Hvordan kan det være den sætter et sæt blad for meget i hvert bladsæt eller hvad man siger...? Nogen der har oplevet det før? Hvordan kommer hun/han/den til at se ud? Kunne forstille mig den blev busket?
På forhånd tak :)
Billede
Billede
Mener der har været en tråd om sådan en mystisk plante, men kan ikke finde den...

Forfatter:  hampdyrker [ 26 apr 2008 16:25 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

der er noget om det på wwedfarmer.com
http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/bota ... Polyploidy
Citat:
Polyploidy

Polyploidy is the condition of multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Cannabis has 20 chromosomes in the vegetative diploid (2n) condition. Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of chromosomes and are termed polyploids. It is believed that the haploid condition of 10 chromosomes was likely derived by reduction from a higher (polyploid) ancestral number (Lewis, W. H. 1980). Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis; however, it may be induced artificially with colchicine treatments. Colchicine is a poisonous compound extracted from the roots of certain Colchicum species; it inhibits chromosome segregation to daughter cells and cell wall formation, resulting in larger than average daughter cells with multiple chromosome sets. The studies of H. E. Warmke et al. (1942-1944) seem to indicate that colchicine raised drug levels in Cannabis. It is unfortunate that Warmke was unaware of the actual psychoactive ingredients of Cannabis and was therefore unable to extract THC. His crude acetone extract and archaic techniques of bioassay using killifish and small freshwater crustaceans are far from conclusive. He was, however, able to produce both triploid and tetraploid strains of Cannabis with up to twice the potency of dip bid strains (in their ability to kill small aquatic organisms). The aim of his research was to "produce a strain of hemp with materially reduced cannabis content" and his results indicated that polyploidy raised the potency of Cannabis without any apparent increase in fiber quality or yield.

Warmke's work with polyploids shed light on the nature of sexual determination in Cannabis. He also illustrated that potency is genetically determined by creating a lower potency strain of hemp through selective breeding with low potency parents.

More recent research by A. I. Zhatov (1979) with fiber Cannabis showed that some economically valuable traits such as fiber quantity may be improved through polyploidy. Polyploids require more water and are usually more sensitive to changes in environment. Vegetative growth cycles are extended by up to 30-40% in polyploids. An extended vegetative period could delay the flowering of polyploid drug strains and interfere with the formation of floral clusters. It would be difficult to determine if cannabinoid levels had been raised by polyploidy if polyploid plants were not able to mature fully in the favorable part of the season when cannabinoid production is promoted by plentiful light and warm temperatures. Greenhouses and artificial lighting can be used to extend the season and test polyploid strains.

The height of tetraploid (4n) Cannabis in these experiments often exceeded the height of the original diploid plants by 25-30%. Tetraploids were intensely colored, with dark green leaves and stems and a well developed gross phenotype. Increased height and vigorous growth, as a rule, vanish in subsequent generations. Tetraploid plants often revert back to the diploid condition, making it difficult to support tetraploid populations. Frequent tests are performed to determine if ploidy is changing.

Triploid (3n) strains were formed with great difficulty by crossing artificially created tetraploids (4n) with dip bids (2n). Triploids proved to be inferior to both diploids and tetraploids in many cases.

De Pasquale et al. (1979) conducted experiments with Cannabis which was treated with 0.25% and 0.50% solutions of colchicine at the primary meristem seven days after generation. Treated plants were slightly taller and possessed slightly larger leaves than the controls, Anomalies in leaf growth occurred in 20% and 39%, respectively, of the surviving treated plants. In the first group (0.25%) cannabinoid levels were highest in the plants without anomalies, and in the second group (0.50%) cannabinoid levels were highest in plants with anomalies, Overall, treated plants showed a 166-250% increase in THC with respect to controls and a decrease of CBD (30-33%) and CBN (39-65%). CBD (cannabidiol) and CBN (cannabinol) are cannabinoids involved in the biosynthesis and degradation of THC. THC levels in the control plants were very low (less than 1%). Possibly colchicine or the resulting polyploidy interferes with cannabinoid biogenesis to favor THC. In treated plants with deformed leaf lamina, 90% of the cells are tetraploid (4n 40) and 10% diploid (2n 20). In treated plants without deformed lamina a few cells are tetraploid and the remainder are triploid or diploid.

The transformation of diploid plants to the tetraploid level inevitably results in the formation of a few plants with an unbalanced set of chromosomes (2n + 1, 2n - 1, etc.). These plants are called aneuploids. Aneuploids are inferior to polyploids in every economic respect. Aneuploid Cannabis is characterized by extremely small seeds. The weight of 1,000 seeds ranges from 7 to 9 grams (1/4 to 1/3 ounce). Under natural conditions diploid plants do not have such small seeds and average 14-19 grams (1/2-2/3 ounce) per 1,000 (Zhatov 1979).

Once again, little emphasis has been placed on the relationship between flower or resin production and polyploidy. Further research to determine the effect of polyploidy on these and other economically valuable traits of Cannabisis needed.

Colchicine is sold by laboratory supply houses, and breeders have used it to induce polyploidy in Cannabis. However, colchicine is poisonous, so special care is exercised by the breeder in any use of it. Many clandestine cultivators have started polyploid strains with colchicine. Except for changes in leaf shape and phyllotaxy, no out standing characteristics have developed in these strains and potency seems unaffected. However, none of the strains have been examined to determine if they are actually polyploid or if they were merely treated with colchicine to no effect. Seed treatment is the most effective and safest way to apply colchicine. * In this way, the entire plant growing from a colchicine-treated seed could be polyploid and if any colchicine exists at the end of the growing season the amount would be infinitesimal. Colchicine is nearly always lethal to Cannabis seeds, and in the treatment there is a very fine line between polyploidy and death. In other words, if 100 viable seeds are treated with colchicine and 40 of them germinate it is unlikely that the treatment induced polyploidy in any of the survivors. On the other hand, if 1,000 viable treated seeds give rise to 3 seedlings, the chances are better that they are polyploid since the treatment killed all of the seeds but those three. It is still necessary to determine if the offspring are actually polyploid by microscopic examination.

The work of Menzel (1964) presents us with a crude map of the chromosomes of Cannabis, Chromosomes 2-6 and 9 are distinguished by the length of each arm. Chromosome 1 is distinguished by a large knob on one end and a dark chromomere 1 micron from the knob. Chromosome 7 is extremely short and dense, and chromosome 8 is assumed to be the sex chromosome. In the future, chromosome *The word "safest" is used here as a relative term. Coichicine has received recent media attention as a dangerous poison and while these accounts are probably a bit too lurid, the real dangers of exposure to coichicine have not been fully researched. The possibility of bodily harm exists and this is multiplied when breeders inexperienced in handling toxins use colchicine. Seed treatment might be safer than spraying a grown plant but the safest method of all is to not use colchicine. mapping will enable us to picture the location of the genes influencing the phenotype of Cannabis. This will enable geneticists to determine and manipulate the important characteristics contained in the gene pool. For each trait the number of genes in control will be known, which chromosomes carry them, and where they are located along those chromosomes.

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 26 apr 2008 17:53 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Whaat? :D Er det godt eller dårligt? :)

Forfatter:  hampdyrker [ 26 apr 2008 18:19 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

det kan resultere i et større udbytte.

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 26 apr 2008 19:36 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Ej hvor nice:) må hellere passe rigtig godt på min legendariske plante så.. Men jeg fik en pose frø var en ven.. og min ven havde fået dem af en af hans venner. Og min ven sagde at det bare var nogle blandede frø, som ikke var noget specielt. Jeg modtog dem i papiret fra en pakke smøger (ca. 70 frø) og der lå planterester blandt frøene, hvilket kunne tyde på at det var noget hjemmedyrk/avl whatever, men irriterer mig jeg ikke ved hvad det er for nogle planter jeg har stående over det hele..

Citat:
det kan resultere i et større udbytte.

Hvordan det? Er det en specielt avlet plante agtig ting eller er den bare naturlig mongol, jeg kunne ikke helt antyde citatet fra de der hollandske pro growers..

Forfatter:  Lakhippien [ 26 apr 2008 23:21 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Rasta Drengen skrev:
Ej hvor nice:) må hellere passe rigtig godt på min legendariske plante så.. Men jeg fik en pose frø var en ven.. og min ven havde fået dem af en af hans venner. Og min ven sagde at det bare var nogle blandede frø, som ikke var noget specielt. Jeg modtog dem i papiret fra en pakke smøger (ca. 70 frø) og der lå planterester blandt frøene, hvilket kunne tyde på at det var noget hjemmedyrk/avl whatever, men irriterer mig jeg ikke ved hvad det er for nogle planter jeg har stående over det hele..
Citat:
det kan resultere i et større udbytte.

Hvordan det? Er det en specielt avlet plante agtig ting eller er den bare naturlig mongol, jeg kunne ikke helt antyde citatet fra de der hollandske pro growers..

I mit første grow på seks planter indendørs var der en eller to der var triploide. Tror det skete i 2. eller 3. uge at jeg opdagede ændringen, for de var nemlig ikke triploide til at starte med. Det pudsige var så at den ene gik tilbage til at være diploid igen (togrenet)!
Om udbyttet blev større eller ej kan jeg ikke huske.

Forfatter:  Psilonautimus [ 26 apr 2008 23:55 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

jeg har ikke lige gidet at læse den lange smøre der men.

Man kan slev lave polyploide planter. Colchicin er et pænt giftigt alkaloid. men man kan lægge sine frø i en opløsning af det og så burde det virke uden at være for giftigt. der er åbenbart tvivl om hvorvidt stoffet bliver optaget i frøet og derefter videre ud i planten når frøet er vokset. Men det Colchicin gør er at det ændre mitosen (celledelingen) og i stædet for to celler dannes der kun en, dog med dobbelt antal kromosomer.
Hvis man er interesseret kan man få fat i sådan en opløsning ved at bruge knolden på colchicin autumnale, en almindelig haveplante, som man knuser og blander med ca. samme mængde vand. så lægger man frøene i blød og spirer dem, og dyrker dem eller som sædvanligt. nogle af planterne burde så være blevet polyploide.
man kan også købe colchicin som rent stof hvor man så skal bruge 200 mg pr liter vand.
KILDE: Hampedyrkerens håndbog

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 27 apr 2008 10:06 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Okay tak :) smart nok :) Så håber jeg bare hun er en tilvænnet udendørs plante :)

Forfatter:  MoS [ 27 apr 2008 10:54 ]
Titel:  3 blade

Mener nu ikke, at Colchicine lægger til grund for den genetiske afvigelse der ses her. Hold dig fra Colchicine, da dette er meget giftigt, og man ikke med sikkerhed ved om slutproduktet indeholder stoffet.

Se også Wikipedia angående Colchicine!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine

MoS :mrgreen:

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 27 apr 2008 16:24 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Okay har heller ikk tænkt at prøve at lave dem selv, men meget sejt at en af mine planter er 3 bladet:) Jeg er bekymret for at det er en indendørs plante, men ville det kunne lade sig gøre for en indendørs plante at se sådan ud som den gør nu? Den har været igennem op til flere nattefroste...

Forfatter:  kemal [ 27 apr 2008 23:42 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Citat:
men ville det kunne lade sig gøre for en indendørs plante at se sådan ud som den gør nu?

Hvorfor skulle det ikke kunne det? Hovedsagligt er de planter som er egnet til indendørsdyrkning, jo bare dem der ikke kan blive færdige udenfor.

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 29 apr 2008 20:29 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Nårh okay, troede bare de generalt ville vokse skidt i kulde.. Men håber sku den kan nå at blomstre færdigt.. det er surt at passe en plante i 5 måneder, som ikke kan blomstre færdigt:)

Forfatter:  hampdyrker [ 30 apr 2008 11:21 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Citat:
Hovedsagligt er de planter som er egnet til indendørsdyrkning, jo bare dem der ikke kan blive færdige udenfor.

de kommer fra varme lande og kan ikke blomstre færdigt hvor cannabis ellers er mest udbredt og bliver derfor kategoriseret som indendørs frø af de firmaer der producerer/avler dem.

Forfatter:  Malkavian [ 30 apr 2008 13:12 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Det er helt klart fedt, at du har en bette mutant med tre blade, men der har næppe noget med polyploidy at gøre. Der er da heller ikke noget i den lange tekst fra weedfarmer, der ligefrem siger, at det at en plante har 3 blade betyder der er rykket rundt på kromosomerne indeni planten.

"Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis"

Og som teksten siger mht. behandlede frø: der er en mager chance for polyploidy hvis du behandler 1000 frø og måske får 3 til at spire, og selv der er der absolut ingen garanti.

Lad den bare vokse op, lav for en sikkerheds skyld et par frø på den ved selektiv befrugtning. Hvis den virkelig er muteret og har gode egenskaber, så har du jo generne på lager :)

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 30 apr 2008 13:24 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Hehe, ja men det vil tiden vise.. tror jeg.. Men passer ihvertfald godt på hende:) Kun er kommet ud i en kæmpe stor potte, som får vand i underskålen som er en balje, og så har hun fået et lille bitte minidrivhus over hovedet :) Og så er hun flyttet ud på nabomarken hvor hun kan slikke direkte sol ca mellem 9:00 og 17:00 :) Har tænkt at smide nogle flere billeder op af hende når hun er blevet lidt større . Men kan ikke lige beslutte om jeg skal få hende bestøvet og lave frø, eller om jeg skal ryge hende :)

Forfatter:  Bismann [ 30 apr 2008 18:42 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Rasta Drengen skrev:
Men kan ikke lige beslutte om jeg skal få hende bestøvet og lave frø, eller om jeg skal ryge hende :)

Hvorfor ikke bar gøre begge dele? :P

Forfatter:  Malkavian [ 30 apr 2008 19:50 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Rasta Drengen skrev:
Hehe, ja men det vil tiden vise.. tror jeg.. Men passer ihvertfald godt på hende:)


BWT, hvordan ved du, at det er en hun?

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 01 maj 2008 01:09 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Kan fornemme at det er en hun.. Det skal hun være..:) Hvordan får jeg både frø og urt? Den metode har jeg ikke hørt om endnu? :)

Forfatter:  lycke [ 01 maj 2008 10:24 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Det sker helt naturligt, Planten laver buds med frø i.

Forfatter:  Theis-0n [ 01 maj 2008 22:43 ]
Titel:  Re: 3 kløver hamp? :)

Okay fantastisk:) er det noget alle planter gør generalt? (så man kan tage frø fra hunplanter) for har tit spekuleret over hvordan man kunne avle god skunk hvis man kun kunne avle frøende fra han planter? Har aldrig haft en vellykket høst før, så aner det ikk.

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